User login


You are here

shakedown in friction --- where should we send it to?

Mike Ciavarella's picture

Anders Klarbring, Jim Barber and I are preparing a paper on the subject of shakedown in elastic contact problems with Coulomb friction. In particular, we establish the (rather limited) conditions under which a frictional equivalent of Melan's theorem can be applied, and we counterprove the theorem in all other cases.There is no plasticity here - the contacting bodies are linear elastic - but the analogies between the Coulomb friction law and elastic plastic deformation make us think the plasticity community might be interested in the results. Where should we send the paper to lie within the technical area covered by the journal, to avoid it might be considered rather peripheral?


Zhigang Suo's picture

Mike: In this day and age, you might as well think that you publish to the Internet. Whatever journal you submit to, the difference is a label (i.e., the name of the journal). Everything you publish is accessed from the Internet.

All journals serve one function well (or at least we think they do): Through DOI they can make the paper available to future generations. For rapid dissemination of your ideas, you might as well upload your preprint to iMechanica before you submit it to any journal. Here are 7 reasons for doing so.

In a different context, I have expressed the same sentiment.

Mike Ciavarella's picture

Well, thanks for this. I can see the advantage of making a paper available as a preprint on the internet, but in most cases, the refereeing process and the selection is still useful.  There are exceptions of course, I read that Grigori Perelman indeed has finally proved the celebrated Poincaré conjecture, yet he has preferred to publish on the internet.  However, he seems to be reluctant to all "clubs", has left the University, has refused such a high honour as the Field Medal, and indeed lives with his mother in a small apartment in Saint Petersburg!

Zhigang Suo's picture

Dear Mike:

I should make myself clear.  You can upload your preprint on a website, and still have your paper peer-reviewed by a journal.  Most journals permit this practice.  Here is a web page that you can search for the permission of journals. 

I followed Zhigang's web link and see that while most journals allow 'postprints' to be published on web pages, the number that permit pre-refereed preprints to be published is much smaller. I am concerned that publishers (or perhaps more exactly editors) of journals may say that once the paper is on the web, it is not an original submission. I would want to see an explicit statement to the contrary from the editor of any jounal I was thinking of submitting to before risking a pre-referee post of the paper. Maybe we should encourage the editors of the principal mechanics journals to state their policies in this regard.

It is true that most journals now send authors a .pdf file in place of the free hard copy reprints that used to be provided and they state that it is OK for this to be put up on the author's web site. I think the best response in the present environment is that authors do just that, and then also prepare a summary for imechanica that contains a link to their web page or directly to the paper. I certainly intend to do this in the future. 


Zhigang Suo's picture

Dear Jim: As far as I can tell, most journals in mechanics allow authors to archive both pre-refereeing copies and post-refereeing copies. For example, all Elsevier journals (except for Cell Press) allow authors to do both. This will cover us for JMPS, IJSS, MOM, and many other popular journals in mechanics and materials.

The web site I gave the other day is very easy to use to check the standing of any particular journal. The site shows that journals like Applied Physics Letters and Journal of Applied Physics and all Physical Review Journals allow authors to do both.

Interestingly, the ASME Journal of Applied Mechanics is unclear about these permisions. I'm forwarding this discussion to Bob McMeeking, the Editor of JAM, so that he can clarify the issue.

Zhigang Suo's picture

Bob McMeeking sent me this message and asked me to post it here.  ZS

Zhigang, I will have to consult ASME on this before I can give you an answer. As you know, ASME is transitioning to online-first publication and from then on papers will have doi numbers, and the on-line version will be considered to be the primary vehicle for the Journal. Publication dates will then be determined by when the on-line version is released, as with many other journals now. The plan I think is to do this by 2008. I assume that ASME will establish its policies on pre- and post-publication posting on the internet clearly in the context of its new online-first publishing system. In the meantime, I will look into what our policy sould be until the online-first system is operating.

I only regret that ASME is only now proceeding with its online-first publication system and that it won't be functional until the 2008 volume appears. However, as you know, ASME has gone through a reorganization and rationalization which has only now given them the capital to invest in the new system.

With best regards

Bob McMeeking

Mike Ciavarella's picture

Zhigang, you have taken quite a different path than the original question --- where should I publish a paper such as that described? Independently on putting it into Imechanica or not, now you ruined my question and probably nobody will ever answer that.


This, incidentally, is a risk of the "forums", instability with respect to initial intentions!

Zhigang Suo's picture

Dear Mike:

In my initial reply, I did give my reply to your question. Perhaps not quite the answer you wanted to hear. To me, it makes little difference which journal one submits a paper to.

All papers are accessed from the Internet. The World is Flat, to borrow the title of Tom Friedman's book. The Internet is even flater. All papers are a few clicks away, regardless which journal you publish in.

Mike Ciavarella's picture

I still find myself reading JMPS more than Journal of Hepatology, or Annals of Physics!

But of course a careful answer to my question requires attentive readings at least of the abstract.

Perhaps we are leading towards the conclusion that internet, forums, chatting, are all about superficial discussions?

p.s. I still thank you for your comments, nobody else of course has done better!

Regards, Mike

Zhigang Suo's picture

The difference between JMPS, IJSS, MOM, JAM, say, is analogous to the difference between a Coke can and a Pepsi can: They are containers of different labels but with similar contents.

The difference between JMPS and Journal of Hepatology is analogous to the difference between a Coke can and a Miller Light can: They are similar containers with different contents.

Even in a flat world of journals, with equal accessibility of (nearly) all papers, labels (the names of the journals, the names of the authors, the keywords, etc.) still serve useful purposes, as indicators of likely contents, and as brand names.

But when you have doubt if you prefer a Coke or a Pepsi, perhaps you might as well stop agonizing and just think the difference between the two labels make no difference to you.

Your conclusion that "the Internet, forums, chatting, are all about superficial discussions" puzzles me. Which part of this thread of discussion leads you to this conclusion?

To me, such discussions simply complement discussions in a hallway when we cannot be together in person, and complement formal articles when we don't feel like to be formal. There are times and places for formal, long discourse. There are times and places for informal, to-the-point (or pointless) chats.

Isn't it wonderful we can choose whichever mode of communication, or none at all, that pleases us?

Pradeep Sharma's picture

I am perhaps going to take this discussion even further away from what Mike presumably intended in his initial post (----on that by the way, Mike, I would not suggest submitting your manuscript to a "plasticity" journal. This opinion is based on the type and topics of papers I see that appear in say Int J Plasticity. In my subjective opinion, JAM and the like are good bets for your topic). 

Zhigang, on a philosphical level I agree with most of the points you have brought up however there are some practical concerns which the younger faculty members or researchers cannot ignore. For an established researcher it is indeed true that there is little difference in the "label" he/she chooses. As you pointed out, internet is flat; all journals are accessible electronically and if the work is good everyone will seek it out....etc. etc. However, early career researchers, if in an academic institute, have to go through the requisite tenure process and eventually other promotions. While I certainly don't endorse this practice, most administrators/bean counters DO judge the quality of the work by the "label" i.e. the name and reputation of the journal or (sometimes to my vexation) by its impact factor. I suspect, although am not sure, grant review panels also pigeon-hole researchers according to the perceived quality of the journals the prospective grantee publish's in.

Regarding "superficial discussions"....I am puzzled as well...the ability to chat with fellow mechanicians across the world (on both pointless and weighty matters) is (as the master card ad claims) "priceless"! (:-)

Henry Tan's picture

Good journals set a high standard for publication. Papers in poor journals usually contain lots of errors, and hard to trust the reported results.

Subscribe to Comments for "shakedown in friction --- where should we send it to?"

Recent comments

More comments


Subscribe to Syndicate